Even Non-Jewish Governments May Not Steal Public Funds for ‘Charity’

Not Yours to Give

Monday, December 22, 2008

[The following story about the famed American icon Davy Crockett was published in Harper’s Magazine in 1867, as written by James J. Bethune, a pseudonym used by Edward S. Ellis. The events that are recounted here are true, including Crockett’s opposition to the bill in question, though the precise rendering and some of the detail are fictional.]

One day in the House of Representatives, a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Davy Crockett arose:

“Mr. Speaker–I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week’s pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks.”

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, Crockett gave this explanation:

“Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the Capitol with some other members of Congress, when our attention was attracted by a great light over in Georgetown . It was evidently a large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could. In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many families made homeless, and, besides, some of them had lost all but the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so many women and children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as soon as it could be done.

“The next summer, when it began to be time to think about the election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my district. I had no opposition there, but, as the election was some time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a part of my district in which I was more of a stranger than any other, I saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my gait so that we should meet as he came to the fence. As he came up, I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought, rather coldly.

“I began: ‘Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called candidates, and–’

“‘Yes, I know you; you are Colonel Crockett, I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine. I shall not vote for you again.’

“This was a sockdolager . . . I begged him to tell me what was the matter.

“‘Well, Colonel, it is hardly worth-while to waste time or words upon it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me. But I beg your pardon for expressing it in that way. I did not intend to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly to a candidate for the purpose of insulting or wounding you. I intend by it only to say that your understanding of the Constitution is very different from mine; and I will say to you what, but for my rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be honest. . . . But an understanding of the Constitution different from mine I cannot overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the more honest he is.’

“‘I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake about it, for I do not remember that I gave any vote last winter upon any constitutional question.’

“‘No, Colonel, there’s no mistake. Though I live here in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers say that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by a fire in Georgetown . Is that true?’

“‘Well, my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury, and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I did.’

“‘It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing to do with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be intrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the right to give to one, you have the right to give to all; and, as the Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity, and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. No, Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity. Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this county as in Georgetown , neither you nor any other member of Congress would have thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week’s pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men in and around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving themselves of even a luxury of life. The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about Washington , no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.

“‘So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you.’

“I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and this man should go to talking, he would set others to talking, and in that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him:

“‘Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have said here at your plow has got more hard, sound sense in it than all the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be shot.’

“He laughingly replied: ‘Yes, Colonel, you have sworn to that once before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You say that you are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the district, you will tell people about this vote, and that you are satisfied it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what I can to keep down opposition, and, perhaps, I may exert some little influence in that way.’

“‘If I don’t,’ said I, ‘I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I am in earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten days, and if you will get up a gathering of the people, I will make a speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.’

“‘No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section, but we have plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days, and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. This is Thursday; I will see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on Friday, and we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see and hear you.’

“‘Well, I will be here. But one thing more before I say good-by. I must know your name.’

“‘My name is Bunce.’

“‘Not Horatio Bunce?’

“‘Yes.’

“‘Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.’

“It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable intelligence and incorruptible integrity, and for a heart brimful and running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed themselves not only in words but in acts. He was the oracle of the whole country around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of his immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him before, I had heard much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should have had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man could now stand up in that district under such a vote.

“At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and a confidence in me stronger than I had every seen manifested before.

“Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and, under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept him up until midnight, talking about the principles and affairs of government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got all my life before.

“I have known and seen much of him since, for I respect him–no, that is not the word–I reverence and love him more than any living man, and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world by storm.

“But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue, and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me around until I had got pretty well acquainted–at least, they all knew me.

“In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech by saying:

“‘Fellow-citizens–I present myself before you today feeling like a new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or prejudice, or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you. Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only.’

“I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I closed by saying:

“‘And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr. Bunce, convinced me of my error.

“‘It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and that he will get up here and tell you so.’

“He came upon the stand and said:

“‘Fellow-citizens–It affords me great pleasure to comply with the request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully perform all that he has promised you today.’

“He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy Crockett as his name never called forth before.

“I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the honors I have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or ever shall make, as a member of Congress.

“Now, sir,” concluded Crockett, “you know why I made that speech yesterday.

“There is one thing now to which I will call your attention. You remember that I proposed to give a week’s pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men–men who think nothing of spending a week’s pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the deceased–a debt which could not be paid by money–and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so insignificant a sum as $10,000, when weighted against the honor of the nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it.”

From FEE, here.

R’ Dessler Thanking Hashem for Balfour Preparations – LEFT OUT of ‘Strive for Truth’

Lecture #04a: Rav Dessler’s Second Thoughts

  • Rav Tamir Granot

We concluded the previous lecture by noting that despite his conservative position, negating any ideological innovation or criticism, even Rav Dessler does take a new look at the history of the Jewish nation in the modern era, prior to the Holocaust and following it. Interestingly, he refuses to acknowledge the innovation inherent in his own words.

The Essence of our Era

We are struck dumb at the terrible destruction that has been visited upon us in our generation, and we ask ourselves: For what reason has God done this to us… What is this great wrath? Let us examine this.

The entire period that preceded the destruction was a time of when the burden of the exile was lightened upon the shoulders of the Jewish people. Even a hundred and fifty years ago, Jews were rejected and despised among the peoples of the world. It was only in recent generations that the nations began to ease our yoke and to extend to us rights and conditions equal to their own; thus began the period of the “Emancipation.” In recent years there has even been talk about the Land of Israel and the possibility of it being given to us as a place of habitation and rest. Those same nations for whom we were previously the subject of scorn and disdain, and who considered us the lowest of the low – even for them, the Land of Israel is the Holy Land, and yet still God put it in their heart to think about giving it to us.

Clearly, the period of the Emancipation was ordained by God to serve as a preparation for us for the coming of the Messiah, and it was for this purpose that the burden of exile was lightened upon us. For the preparation for the time of the Messiah requires of us much spiritual work in order to attain the level of redemption, and a situation of constant trouble and frequent humiliation is not conducive to producing the necessary boost to ascend. Thus, this new illumination and the easing of our situation came about in order that we should use them for the purposes of holiness. But since we have turned the purpose upside down, and instead of understanding the hint from Above to prepare ourselves for redemption out of joy and expanding our consciousness, we used the new situation mingle with the gentiles and to learn from their ways, therefore there awaited us the well-known danger of preparation for holiness that its not realized – as explained above. (And the fact that the destruction came only now, even though the process of assimilation was one that has developed gradually for a long time, is because God is long-suffering and does not bring punishment until the measure of sin is full, and there is no longer any hope of [a positive] influence bringing about a repair. Thus we find in the case of the First Temple, which stood for a long time with the “ten miracles” still being maintained in it, even though Menashe had long ago placed an idol in the Sanctuary.) [And if after the terrible destruction there comes about another period of grace, we should not repeat our transgression, but rather recognize the hints from Above and be inspired to return in full repentance.] (Mikhtav me-Eliyahu, part IV, p. 124 [Heb.])[1]

As we know, the spiritual leadership of European Jewry was divided as to the significance of the Emancipation.  Some rabbis – including the Chatam Sofer in Hungary, Rav Tzvi Elimelekh Shapira of Dinov in Galicia, and Rav Schneur Zalman of Liadi in White Russia – rejected the Emancipation, recognizing that it would lead to an abandonment of religion and to assimilation.  On the other hand, Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch in Germany viewed it as a blessing, just as he regarded the Enlightenment itself as a source of spiritual blessing for the Jewish people rather than as a spiritual threat.  There were also other leaders, such as the Maggid of Kozhnitz (among the Chassidim) and Rav Yaakov Ettlinger of Altuna, Germany, who regarded the very fact of an improvement in the situation of the Jews as a Divine act of kindness, and saw no reason to oppose it.  Of course, Rav Dessler’s words, cited above, represent a clear deviation from the position of opposition and rejection – a position which, with time, was also upheld by Rav Elchanan Wasserman, who was the focus of a previous lecture.

However, Rav Dessler takes a step further and asserts that the Emancipation was a Divine act of kindness in preparation for the Final Redemption.  In other words, it should be viewed as part of a positive development in history, which is proceeding towards the redemption of Israel. 

A hundred years earlier, a similar theme had been proposed by Rav Tzvi Hirsch Kalischer, who explains in his book Derishat Tzion that the Emancipation is not – as the “enlightened” Jews believe – a gateway to the intermingling of Jews within their countries in Europe, but rather a platform for creating the political conditions that will allow the Jewish nation to act, vis-א-vis the nations as well as within itself, to promote a process of national awakening.  (This theory turned out to herald the Zionist enterprise.)

Rav Dessler continues Rav Kalischer’s view in that he identifies the positive aspect of the Emancipation as a stage leading towards redemption, but he is not prepared to draw the same conclusion arrived at by his predecessor.  While Rav Kalischer believed that the proper response to God’s blessing in the form of Emancipation was practical action, using political and economic tools to achieve the goal of Jewish redemption, Rav Dessler insists that the comfortable situation brought about by the change in the gentile attitude was supposed to be used for spiritual, internal development and refinement, in order to become ready for and worthy of the redemption.  To this view, an understanding of the Emancipation as an invitation to assimilate among the nations does not prove, retroactively, that it was a negative phenomenon; rather, it points to a catastrophic missed opportunity, since in its wake came the Holocaust.

The establishment of the State of Israel, which had just came about when Rav Dessler’s above words being written, is also viewed by him as one of God’s mercies, to which we should respond with repentance and good deeds.  This does not represent any kind of ideological shift, since the conclusion that he draws is, ultimately, a conservative one: our mission is to elevate ourselves through repentance and Torah study, etc.  However, his words do represent a new perspective – perhaps even a new historical world-view – that detects within the modern era some significant progress towards redemption, both in terms of the process of awarding rights to the Jews in Europe (late 18th-century onwards), and in terms of the establishment of the State of Israel.

I believe that Rav Dessler’s words should also be viewed within the spiritual and social context of the early years of the State’s existence.  Rav Dessler was the mashgiach ruchani (spiritual counselor) of the Ponivezh yeshiva in Benei Berak, which was headed by the Rabbi of Ponivezh, Rav Yosef Shelomo Kahaneman zt”l.[2] Rav Kahaneman had welcomed the establishment of the State of Israel and perceived it as a sign of “Divine awakening” in anticipation of the redemption.  He ordered that the Israeli flag be displayed at his yeshiva, and he hosted leaders of the State.  It may be assumed that Rav Dessler’s positive view – which has no basis in the teachings of either the Chafetz Chaim nor Rav Wasserman, whom he had defended so passionately in his letter on “Faith in the Sages” – arose from the sense of elation that overtook even some of the Charedi leadership in the early years of the State, and from his closeness to Rav Kahaneman.

Rav Dessler himself passed away in the year 5714, and it is difficult to know whether he maintained his view or whether it changed.  In later Charedi literature, a positive view of the Emancipation or of the State of Israel – in fact, any positive view of Jewish history in the modern era as following some sort of process – is unacceptable.

 

Translated by Kaeren Fish


[1] This section of Mikhtav Me-Eliyahu has not yet been translated into English in the Strive for Truth series.

[2]   Rabbi Yosef Shelomo Kananeman (1886-1969), also known as the Rabbi of Ponivezh, was Rosh Yeshiva of Ponivezh in Lithuania prior to the Holocaust, and was the founder and first Rosh Yeshiva after its subsequent re-establishment in Israel.  Rabbi Kahaneman was born in the town of Kuhl in Lithuania.  He studied at the Telz yeshiva, under Rabbi Eliezer Gordon and Rabbi Shimon Shkop.  Thereafter he spent a year at the yeshiva of Novhardok, and three more years at the yeshiva of Radin, under the Chafetz Chaim.  He married the daughter of the rabbi of Vidzh, and took up the rabbinate there when his father-in-law was appointed rabbi of Vilkomir.  In 1916 he became head of the yeshiva at Grodno, where he became known as a man of exceptional organizational abilities, and from then he started establishing similar yeshivot.  In 1919, with the passing of Rabbi Yitzchak Rabinowitz, he was appointed rabbi of Ponivezh, where he immediately established a yeshiva called “Ohel Yitzchak,” in memory of his predecessor.  During the years 1923-1925 he served as a member of the Lithuanian parliament.  He remained the rabbi of Ponivezh up until Lithuania was annexed to the Soviet Union in 1940.  During the German occupation he remained outside of Lithuania and thus was saved; the same year, he moved to Palestine and settled in Jerusalem.  In 1944 he initiated, with the help of the Chazon Ish, the establishment of a yeshiva in Benei Berak, named after his community which had been eradicated.  The permanent building of the yeshiva was completed only ten years later, and its inauguration was held on the 27th of Sivan, 5713 (June 10th, 1953), commemorating the anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Lithuania.

From VBM, here.

פרשת משי זהב – אות קלון גם בבי”ד העדה החרדית

לא כול הנוצץ הוא משי ו/או זהב / הרב אליהו קאופמן

    פרשת חשיפת מעלליו של יהודה משי זהב איננה מפתיעה בגילוייה והיא טרפה את הקלפים ממסד שרצה לקדמו בפוליטיקה החרדית. התקשורת הכללית איננה “כבשה תמימה” בטיוח ההיסטורי. וגם “העדה החרדית” יכולה הייתה למנוע את החילול השם הזה לפני עשרות שנים עם מספר פשקווילים בלבד.

    פרשת החשדות סביב יהודה משי זהב מסיימת אצל רבים מתושבי שכונת “מאה שערים” בירושלים כארבעים שנות סיוטים של פחד. אצל אחרים, שלא היו תושבי השכונה, היא סיימה כשלושים שנה שבהן נודעו למעלליו. הדברים היו ידועים גם לעיתונאים ולאנשי ציבור – ובמיוחד במפלגות הליכוד, “קדימה”. מאז שנות השמונים של המאה העשרים ידעו יהודים חרדים להתרחק מהאיש הזה. עוד לפני המושג “שמפניה” כבר זיהו אותו במאה שערים” כאחד שיתאים למושג, רק בהבדל אחד – אבישי רביב זוהה עם השב”כ ויהודה משי זהב זוהה עם המשטרה. ביקורתי איננה אישית אלא נגד רשויות החוק בישראל, נגד התקשורת, ובמיוחד נגד ראשי הציבור הפוליטי, שידעו אבל ציידו אותו בכוח ופעלו להאדרת שמו כדי לבנות “חרדים חדשים”. חלק מהעובדות שאציין היו ידועות לאלה שהפכו אותו ל”גיבור חרדי” והעטירו עליו “פרסים” כדי לבקוע ביהדות החרדית. אני מאשים את ראשי ה”עדה החרדית” שידעו מיהו האיש אבל מעולם לא הוציאו עליו כרוז בלשון “ובערת הרע מקרבך”, ולא מעט בגלל הנפוטיזם של האיש. משי זהב לא היה חרדי במהות ההלכתית של המושג כבר משנת 1990, ויש הטוענים שלא היה חרדי כבר מאמצע שנות השמונים של המאה העשרים – כולל בימים שהיה מנהיג מחתרת “קשת”.

                                                קשת בענן

     עיתונאים בכיר לשעבר בעיתון דתי – לאומי נלחם שנים נגד האיש ויידע את המשטרה על כך אבל הם הגנו על משי זהב. פעם – בשיחה עם קציני משטרה בכירים, התריס העיתונאי לעברם כי “אתם מגנים עליו כי הוא סוכן שלכם”. לפני עשרות שנים נקשר שמו של משי זהב לניסיון התנקשות בעורך עיתון חרדי בחו”ל – לאחר שהעורך פרסם עליו “פרטים”. מי שנדקר במקומו היה חסיד חב”ד שיצא ממערכת העיתון ושהתוקפים טעו בזיהויו. המחתרת “קשת” סימנה בשנות השמונים של המאה העשרים את ההתקוממות החרדית של נגד ארכיאולוגים עקב חפירות קברים. ב”עדה החרדית” בירושלים מעולם לא נתנו ידם לפעילות כזו אלא מחו נגד הארכיאולוגים באופן ספונטני. המחאות הטרידו את הגורמים הממסדיים, ו”קשת” כנראה הוקמה על רקע זה כפרובוקציה להכפשת “העדה החרדית”, וכך ההפגנות תתקפלנה. כשנלכדה “קשת” – בפברואר שנת 1989, נתגלו בה כחמישה מבני משפחת משי זהב, ובראשם יהודה משי זהב. חצי שנה אח”כ  כבר התחולל “המהפך” הרעיוני של האיש, לדבריו עקב “פרשת דרדור אוטובוס 405 ע”י פלשתינאי”. הוא לא ישב ארוכות על פרשת הטרור של “קשת” . כבר בראשית שנות השמונים של המאה העשרים עדכנו אנשי “נטורי קרתא” – ובראשם הרב המנוח משה הירש (שגם נפגע ממנו מחומצה בעינו), כי יש להיזהר מהאיש משום “שמדובר בסוכן משטרתי”. לצד כול הסיפורים הללו פורסמו בע”פ ההאשמות שכיום הוא חשוד בהן, אבל החרדים שחיו בסביבתו פחדו ממנו פיזית וחששו גם לגיבוי המשטרתי שלו. אלה אינם סיפורים בעלמא משום שבשורות הבאות אביא לכם כמה עובדות על פרובוקאטורים שפעלו “בחסות החוק”. בראשית שנות התשעים של המאה העשרים – סביב פרשת הרב עוזי משולם הי”ד, יצא לי להתחבר לקצין משטרה לשעבר, שהיה מעורב בחשיפת העוול שנעשה לעמוס ברנס ע”ה. בהתחברותי אליו ניסיתי לדלות ממנו מי היו סייעני המשטרה בסקטור החרדי – בימי הפגנות השבת בשנות ה-70 של המאה ה-20 בירושלים. הוא סיפר לי על צעיר חרדי אדמוני שהיה כול שבת מגיע למקום ההפגנות ומלבה אותן בזריקת ביצים. הקצין סיפר לי כי הוא היה דואג לשולחו למעצר ב”מגרש הרוסים”. אבל בכול פעם המתפרע היה חוזר כעבור שעה קלה וממשיך לזרוק עליו ביצים, עד למעצרו ואח”כ שחרורו הבא. באחד הימים צלצל הקצין למפקדו ודרש להבין כיצד הלה מוחזר על ידם שוב ושוב. מפקדו של הקצין ענה לו כי “אתה תעשה את עבודתך והמודיעין שלנו יעשה את עבודתו”.

                                            משי זהב לא לבד

    ארגון הזיהוי לקורבנות טרור היה קיים לפני הפיכתו של יהודה משי זהב ליו”ר שלו. בימי “פיגועי השלום” של אמצע שנות התשעים של המאה העשרים, סייעו מתנדבים חרדים להצלות הללו. הם התנדבו לשמה והציבור אהב אותם – כולל בתקשורת. זה היה בימים שהקרע בין החילוניים לחרדים היה גדל על רקע כישלון “התרגיל המסריח” של שמעון פרס, ואח”כ על רקע הקמת ממשלת השמאל. המתנדבים החרדים עוררו התפעמות בציבור החילוני והמתח החל לקרוס. מנגד נראה היה שהתדמית המפחידה של הציבור החרדי – דמוגרפית ואלקטוראלית, עומדת להתפוגג ומישהו בממסד החליט שצריך להכניס לארגון הנחמד הזה איש מטעם הממסד שימשוך את הציבור החרדי לקוטב “החרדים החדשים”. כך מסתמא צנח לפתע סוחר הסוכריות – משי זהב, לתוך היו”רות של ארגון זק”א, שכבר לא היה רק וולנטארי אלא עסק בפוליטיקה ממש – העברת חרדים לכיוון “הממלכתי”. זה היה אחד הכיוונים של אותם הימים – כשהממסד בנה ארגוני פעולה לכיוון יצירת ה”חרדים החדשים”. כך נבנה באות ימים ארגון “מנוף” – שמטרתו הייתה להוריד את לחץ התקשורת החרדית נגד בריונות המשטרה באירועי הפגנות השבת ברחוב בר אילן בירושלים ומנגד לתקוף את ארגון ההגנה על קברי ישראל – “אתרא קדישא”. באותם ימים השתתף גם דודי זילברשלג (לימים גם הוא נתפס בפרשה מביכה…), מחותנו של יהודה משי זהב, בפעילות ממסדית להחלשת גורמים אקטיביים חרדים בענייני קברים ונגד ההתנגדות לחינוך החילוני ולכניסתו למוסדות חינוך חרדיים. לאורך כול אותן השנים הרי ש”החרדי החדש” – גם אם היה מכוער, הרי שקודם ע”י הממסד והתקשורת הישראלית, והם נתנו לו את הזרקורים לכך רק משום שהאויב האמיתי שלהם היה בהתעצמות היהדות החרדית. רבנים צדיקים ונקיים כעמרם בלויא, דוד שמידל ועוזי משולם היו תמיד הרבה יותר מסוכנים למיינסטרים החילוני, מאשר טיפוסים מפוקפקים כמשי זהב, זילברשלג ודומיהם. כך השתלחה התקשורת ברבנים צדיקים ומנגד היא חיפתה על משתפי”ה. “הזעזועים” מפרשת משי זהב, של הח”כיות מיכאלי וזנדברג, הם בעיני צביעות, שהרי לא יתכן שעיתונאית לשעבר וח”כית כיום – כמיכאלי, לא ידעה על מה שכולם ידעו על משי זהב. וכנ”ל לגבי זנדברג. לשתיים היסטוריה של בניית מערכת אנטי חרדית בפוליטיקה – מתוך הציבור החרדי, כדי שיספיק להן לסתום את אפן כשסירחון קשה מגיע מ”חרדים חדשים” הלוחמים נגד עולם התורה.

                                             “הדג מסריח מהראש”

     בתחילת שנות האלפיים הזדמנתי לעיר הבלגית אנטוורפן. ארגון זק”א ערך שם מגבית. הציבור החרדי בעיר החרים את האירוע. הם ידעו היטב מיהו יהודה משי זהב – שיוצג שם ע”י אחיו המנוח, משה. שני רבנים בלבד נכחו בקהל המצומצם. הגעתי לשם בהזמנה של שגריר ישראל בבלגיה – שאול עמור. הדברים ששמעתי ממנו זעזעו אותי. מכבודו של האח המנוח לא אפרט עליו אבל לגבי יהודה משי זהב הרי שדבריו של עמור היו ממש בגדר “ביקורת קטלנית” תוך טענתו שמדובר “בעולם הפשע, ורק ה’ הטוב יודע באמת לאן הולך הכסף”. הוא טען שם עוד טענות מפלילות שלא אעלה אותן ואני שאלתי אותו מדוע הוא הגיע לערב הזה ונשא נאום תמיכה בארגון ובראשיו ? עמור טען כי “ביבי נתניהו (אז שר החוץ), ובמיוחד אהוד אולמרט (אז מקורבו הבכיר של ראש הממשלה דאז, אריאל שרון), הכריחו אותי להגיע וטענו כי יהודה משי זהב הוא התקווה שלהם לשינוי החברה החרדית “. לימים הסתבר לי שמכתביו של אולמרט – אסיר לשעבר, היו מפתח חשוב של משי זהב לתרומות. על ענייני גיוס הכספים לזק”א הספקתי לשמוע גם מנדבנים יהודים מבריטניה, בטוענם כי “הרבנית יעקובובי’ץ (אשת הרב הראשי לשעבר שם) היא אישה תמימה שמזרימה סכומי עתק ליהודה משי זהב, מבלי לבדוק כמונו, לאן הסכומים באמת מגיעים “. נחזור לאמצע שנות התשעים של המאה העשרים. באותם ימים התיישב משי זהב על כיסא יו”ר זק”א והחל להתגרות ברבים. חבר ילדות – בלש פרטי, פגש אותי בירושלים. האיש היה בסערת רוחות וסיפר לי על פרויקט שביצע במעקב אחרי משי זהב, תוך צילומי סתר בלאס ווגס ובהוליווד שבארה”ב, במלונות הפאר, ואת כול מעלליו של משי זהב שצילם שם. “העבודה” הייתה בשליחותו של רב מאוד בכיר כיום בש”ס, שרצה להפסיק את הטרדותיו של משי זהב נגד ש”ס. הקלטת הועברה אליו. מאז משי זהב לא העיז להטריד את ש”ס. או – אז נזכרתי כי שנתיים קודם לכן סיפר לי אברך כולל כיצד בנו הסתבך בארה”ב בפלילים בגלל חברותו עם משי זהב, אך האחרון כמובן שהצליח לחמוק מהפללה.

                                       הסיבה האמיתית לשקט

     אפשר להמשיך ולספר כאן עוד מעללים אבל המטרה שלי איננה להפליל את משי זהב, שנמצא גם אחרי טרגדיה קשה במשפחתו. המטרה שלי היא להפנות את הזרקורים לאלה שידעו את האמת אבל דאגו להכשירו משום היותו אלטרנטיבה לחרדיות. כזה הוא דוב אלבוים – עוד פליט מהיהדות החרדית שזכה להשתלב בתקשורת החילונית רק משום שכ”חוזר בשאלה” הוא הרים את הדגל האנטי חרדי, ואף הקים פרובוקציה ששמה “ישיבה חילונית”. לפני כארבע שנים הוא אירח בתוכניתו את משי זהב ופיאר אותו כמי שפתח פתח ליחסים חדשים בין חרדים לחילוניים. שם הוא הדגיש את השרות הצבאי של בניו של משי זהב, וכמובן שאלבוים הציג באור שלילי את היהדות החרדית. מחברותי עם אחיו של אלבוים – יהודי חרדי מלונדון, אני יודע כי אלבוים ידע על מעלליו של בן דודו, יהודה משי זהב, אבל בריאיון לא היה זכר ל”ידע” הזה. ואם אלבוים ידע אז מדוע שבטלויזיה וב”ידיעות אחרונות” לא ידעו ? אבל כמובן שהלוחמה נגד היהדות החרדית ונגד עולם התורה חשובים יותר מכול מלחמה “מוסרית”, עבור “יפי הנפש” מהתקשורת ומהממסד הישראלי. כמובן שאלבוים לא לבד. במשך יותר משנה חוקרים ב”הארץ” את הפרשה הזו. והנה עכשיו – ממש עם הטרגדיה של מות הוריו של משי זהב ושל אחיו, הוא הוזמן לכול תוכנית אפשרית כדי להלום ביהדות החרדית וברבניה. כך למשל גב’ לוסי אהריש – שמתחפשת ל”יהודיה חילונית” תחת התואר המכובס “ישראלית”, העניקה לו פתחון פה נגד החברה החרדית בעניין ה”קורונה”. שם הוא האשים את כול הרבנים החרדים כ”מכחישי שואה”. אברי גלעד – איש תקשורת שעוד לא החליט אם הימין או השמאל הם השקפותיו, ידע להציע לציבור החרדי לקחת את משי זהב כמנהיגו. וכשתקשורת “מציעה” דבר כזה הרי ש”הבישול” כבר נעשה. אין לי ספק שגם אברי גלעד וגם לוסי אהריש שמעו ממעללי האיש הזה אבל “כול המצר לישראל נעשה לראש”. “פרס ישראל” היה צריך להיות הדחיפה החזקה לכך שמשי זהב יקפוץ כיתה בפוליטיקה האנטי חרדית. אבל “רבות מחשבות בלב איש המה ועצת ה’ תקום”. “מי שמחלל שמים בסתר נפרעים ממנו בגלוי”.

                                             שטיפת מוח חולנית

     בציבור החילוני עובדת שטיפת מוח שכול מי שהוא חרדי הריהו חשוד בפלילים ובעבירות מוסר ואילו “החרדים החדשים” הם כולם “טוהר המידות”. את האוויליות הזו משפריצים מהתקשורת ומהממסד הישראלי, אבל גם מ”מערכות הביטחון” הצבאיות והאזרחיות. לא פלא הוא שבכול פעם שנתפס “חרדי – לייט” באיזו עבירה מיד הציבור החילוני נדהם ואילו התקשורת והממסד הצבועים מתנהגים כ”שלושת הקופים”. כך זה קרה בפרשת דודי זלברשלג, כך הכשירו את בנו הבעייתי, כך הפך אלי ביתן הקומוניסט ל”חרדי” ב”ערוץ 11″, כך הפך הליצן קובי אריאלי ל”דובר חרדי” וכך זה קרה עשרות שנים עם משי זהב. אבל האמת היא הפוכה: ככול שהיהודי הוא חרדי יותר כך הוא הגון ונקי יותר ואילו אלה שמתחפשים לחרדים, אבל חיים כחילוניים, הם הצבועים והמושחתים. אפילו עיתונאי מהשמאל – שאיננו אנטי חרדי, כמו חיים ברעם, נפל קורבן לשטיפת המוח הזו. זה קרה לאחר שהתבררו עבירותיו של אורי לופוליאנסקי – ראש עיריית ירושלים לשעבר, כנוכל מסייע לאולמרט. ברעם הודה שחשב כי לופוליאנסקי הוא אדם נקי “בגלל מתינותו כלפי החילוניים”. אבל ל”מתינות” הזו – ול”קירוב הלבבות של חרדים עם חילוניים”, יש תמיד מחיר בשקלים, בדולרים ובשררה.

                                       האשמת “העדה החרדית”

     אני מאשים אף את ה”עדה החרדית” בסירחון הזה. אני יודע היטב שהם סבלו ממנו רבות ואף ביקשו לא להניח על מדפיהם את תיקיו בביה”ד שלהם, אבל כמו שהם תמיד ידעו לצאת במודעות נגד, כאשר מישהו סרח בדיני ממונות או כנגד הרדיו “קול חי”, כך היה צריך לצאת במודעה כי האיש הזה איננו עוד חלק מ”העדה החרדית”. ב”עדה החרדית” ידעו שדעותיו השתנו רשמית בשנת 1989 אבל עד אמצע שנות התשעים של המאה העשרים הוא המשיך להיות איש הקשר שלהם בהפגנות בירושלים. זכורני כי המנוח הרב אברהם רביץ – אז ח”כ ויו”ר “דגל התורה”, פתח את פיו נגד משי זהב, באחת ההפגנות, וטען כי “לא פלא שהפגנות ה”העדה החרדית” עוברות בשקט כי משי זהב מתמרן זאת עבורם עם המשטרה שלו”. ב”עדה החרדית”. הם ידעו היטב כי סיפור “הקמב”ץ של העדה החרדית” הוא בלוף וזהו שם חילוני ותקשורתי בלבד כדי להלהיט יצרים ממסדיים נגד היהדות החרדית, אבל איש מ”העדה החרדית” לא מצא לנכון להוציא מודעות כי אין תפקיד כזה ואין בכלל איש כזה, שמכהן בתפקיד. אם הם היו פועלים בזמן הרי שכול החילול ה’ הזה היה נחסך מאיתנו.

מאתר יורה דעה, כאן.

Mi Ke’amcha Yisrael!

LESSONS FROM THE CLASSIFIEDS

In a Jerusalem chareidi newspaper, I found the strangest classified section I have ever seen

Someone recently dented my car while it was parked in a public parking lot. There was no note, no apology, no offer to pay for the damage — which is the proper thing to do in such instances. But sadly, such notes are rare in today’s society. Such is life, I mused, that’s human nature. Self-centeredness, looking out for number one — these are the norms for today’s society.

Well, maybe not. Because not long after that incident I came across a very unusual classified ads section in a Jerusalem chareidi newspaper, the strangest classified section I have ever seen.

It is a combination Help Wanted and Help Available column all in one. But the help that is wanted or available has nothing to do with jobs or work. Instead, they are offers of help or requests for assistance. Called “Reshus HaRabbim” (“The Public Domain”), the feature carries an odd assortment of notices.

In one such notice, the writer declares that at a certain time on a certain day on a certain bus route, as he was exiting the bus with his stroller, he inadvertently scratched and possibly dented the stroller of one of the other passengers. If said passenger will contact him (here he gives his phone number), he would like to pay for the damages.

I was stunned. Here was someone going out of his way to make amends, when many people would have simply ignored it.

One of the most affecting was this: “On Tishah B’Av a man died after much suffering. He was all alone: no family, no relatives. It would be a true chesed if someone [and here I expected an appeal for money] could recite a chapter of Tehillim or study a Mishnah in his memory until the shloshim.” The notice goes on to give the man’s Hebrew name.

Another notice reads: “As we approach the Yamim Noraim, it is important to make shalom among us. If you are a teenage girl who wishes to make peace after an argument or a misunderstanding, but doesn’t know how to go about it, contact this number for assistance from an experienced counselor who has dealt with such issues all her life. Confidentiality assured. No fees. You don’t have to give your name at all.”

Many notices deal with health issues, or with the need for certain hard-to-find medications, or with the names of certain physicians or alternative medical practitioners who were of great help. Some request, or offer, genuine mother’s milk for infants.

If you seek a study partner for Torah study, there is a special organization that — without any fees — will connect you with the suitable people. You name the subject — Mishnah, Gemara, Navi, Chumash, Ramban, Talmud Yerushalmi — and they will supply the partner.

With the beginning of the new school year, a chesed organization asks for bookbags, pen-and-pencil cases, student briefcases, because these can run into hundreds of shekalim each.

At a time when the news is filled with stories of people with assault rifles who murder indiscriminately, or who kill with their hatred-filled rhetoric; when Israel is surrounded by ruthless murderers who take pride in destroying entire families and who are celebrated as heroes, it is comforting to know that in some corners of the universe there still exist people who are overflowing with kindness and goodness, who are concerned about others and who are filled with love and chesed.

Perhaps it is only the daily media that gives the impression that the world is overflowing with human depravity. That is, after all, their business: venality, brutality, and evil is exciting. That, and not stories of kindness and goodness, is what sells papers.  But perhaps the reality is different. Perhaps people are essentially good, and the thugs and evildoers are in the minority. The levels of chesed of these Help Wanted columns restore one’s faith in the essential decency of people. The headlines might recount tales of brutality, but on the inside pages one finds offers of loving-kindness in the classifieds. Which is a fine springboard for the Yamim Noraim.

As for the person who damaged my car, if he would come forward, I have a special gift for him: A permanent subscription to the paper with the Reshus HaRabbim classifieds.

(Originally featured in Mishpacha, Issue 778)

From Mishpacha, here.

Pouring Cold Water on the Stigma of Religious Girls in the Army

Chareidiyos & IDF: Breakthrough or Breakdown?

 BS”D

Chareidi Women Working at an Israeli Air Force Base: Breakthrough or Breakdown?
— And the Imperative to Fight End the Military Draft for ALL Girls, Including Secular
Iyyar 16, 5781 / Tiferes She’Be’Hod, Parshas “Emor el HaCohanim” / Apr. 27, ’21
By Binyomin Feinberg

It was recently widely reported in Israeli media (e.g. TV News12, Ynet April 8, ’21) that the Israeli Air Force has, over the course of several years, developed a group of Chareidi women who perform very sensitive high-tech military work as paid employees of the military, at a military base. Secular Israeli media understandably hailed this as refreshingly positive development, enabling Chareidi women to secure careers that (a) purportedly accommodate their religious lifestyle while also (b) providing financial independence and (c) reportedly making a significant contribution to the physical security of the State of Israel. This unusual initiative was spearheaded by an ostensibly Chareidi woman, Ester Solomon, who received a Yom Ha’Atzmaut (Israeli Independence Day) award from the Israeli military for her “trailblazing” work in recruiting over a dozen ostensibly Chareidi women to work in this group. Solomon is officially involved with organizational work aimed at providing Chareidi women the “benefits” they’re missing out on by not serving either in the Army or Sheirut Leumi (National Service), both of which Chareidi girls generally avoid – in compliance with the Chareidi Rabbinic leaders who have declared both as prohibited.*

On closer observation, however, not everything is as rosy as it may appear to many casual observers, as we explain in brief below.

(* P.S.: Recent events have revealed the foresight of the Rabbinic pronouncements against the Israeli drafting of girls. Every step towards breaking the taboos of the Israeli government drafting girls into the Army leads the government to advance more of the same, inexorably leading towards mainstreaming the notion of religious, even ostensibly Chareidi women serving in the morally corrosive Army environment.)

At the very least, a few warnings are in order:

1) ANY initiative aimed at drawing Jews (either the recruits or others) away from Torah – in this case,  towards accepting the Israeli government drafting girls – involves a prohibition of the highest magnitude.*

(* For a sample of Torah sources addressing prohibitions of that which leads one astray from Judaism, see Shabbos 116a: Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Yishmoel; GR”A Orach Chaim 334: 26-28; Teshuvas HaRosh 19:17; Tosofos Pesachim 25a, Avoda Zorah 27b, Tosofos Shayni; Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Daiyoh 155:1; Teshuvas Maharam Shik O.C. 304; Sefer “MiYemini Michael” on Pesachim 58:12,13; cf. “S’dei Eliyahu” on Shabbos 116. To illustrate the severity of the prohibition against that which potentially could lead to apostasy, the world renowned  “Chassam Sofer,” in his responsa on Yoreh Daiyah, 76 (quoted by the Pischei Teshuva on Y.D., siman 155) prohibited healing remedies employed with intent to draw the recipient away from Torah, even for those facing life-threatening conditions.)
A review of the publicly available information on some of the operative organizations, ATIDA and Atid Yisroel, as well as a letter on “Shalhevet” stationary, apparently signed by Mrs. Solomon, indicate that there is a concrete effort to integrate Chareidi women into the Israeli military, incrementally. Any accomplishment in that regard, however seemingly harmless, and even seemingly beneficial, leads to the next, more ominous steps.

How specifically would this celebrated Air Force development lead to the latter?

2) This ostensibly Chareidi Air Force program will most likely be cited by the Israeli Supreme Court as evidence of their bizarre pronouncement in early 2019 that serving in the military does not conflict with the lifestyle of religious girls. The fact that these women are ostensibly being paid may be easily dismissed.*

[* as in the expression attributed to a famous WWII era British statesman, “Madam, what you ARE has already been established, we’re now just quibbling about the price.” (The full context of his remarks is not appropriate for  publication for this readership.)]
This legal landmine could explode in the Supreme Court in the course of any legal case involving a religious girl being drafted that makes its way up to the Bagatz (Israeli Supreme Court). We ought to expect the unexpected. Advocacy organizations be warned: your planned forays into the notoriously leftist Israeli Supreme Court may harm tens of thousands of religious girls.

3) Additionally, the “wonderful” and truly historic precedent set here – over which Ms. Solomon waxed eloquent at her timely Yom HaAztma’ut award – will be leveraged not only to offer an OPTION to Chareidi women, but also to eventually establish a MANDATORY alternative to Army and Sheirut Leumi. Once there’s a “religiously acceptable” manner of making a contribution to the military, it will become required of all religious girls. Of course, politically connected families may initially evade the obligation. But everyone else will suffer – just because these ladies opted to secure hefty salaries “to support their husbands in Kollel”.*

(* as if the continuity of Torah requires the financing of this camouflaged concoction of the Army Draft Office.)
4) Consider the emotional and psychological impact that this female Chareidi taboo-breaker has on all of the courageous refusenik girls – often isolated and abandoned by the Chareidi estsblishment – enduring harassment, persecution, terrorism, incarceration in military prison, abuse by the military police, prison and justice systems. These courageous souls, often with no family or community support, are putting everything on the line to stand on principle. Now, enter some comfortable, well-paid Chareidi women – whose community connection to political parties provided them the leisure of avoiding both Army and Sheirut Leumi easily, sans mesiras nefesh – and THEY volunteer to work for the Army proper – on an Army base. Thereby they are pouring cold water on the stigma of religious girls in the Army. How do those two pictures combine?
And Where is Mrs. Solomon and other involved ostensibly Chareidi busybodies when it comes to helping those most needy and deserving of it, i.e. the aforementioned refusenik girls (e.g.: “IDF: Stop Persecuting Olga”: http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2021/03/idf-stop-persecuting-olga.html ( Wed, Mar 3, 2021 ),  https://daattorah.blogspot.com/2019/11/online-updates-in-culture-wars-parshas.html,  http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2019/11/culture-wars-updates-online-vayaira.html?m=1) – risking so much to stand against the often brutal abuse of the Israeli Army and its Sodomesque justice system?
If they would feel the pain of all of the girls and women being persecuted by the human-trafficking professionals operating out of the Army Draft Office, would they indeed wax so eloquent about the wonders of working for the Army? Would they pontificate about their contribution to a cause “greater than themselves” while being paid hefty salaries (shochad or es’nan) to serve as useful idiots to advance the forcible draft of untold numbers of other girls – and to advance the doomed Army attempt to decimate the remnant of authentically devout girls risking all to avoid compromising with Army dictates to appear for a Rayon Dat [religiosity interrogation (see http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2020/02/creep-state.html )]?
°  In addition, on careful observation, Solomon’s public statements, organizational work and associations strike one as infused with self-focused ambition, and unbecoming of a genuinely Chareidi woman. In fact, it’s hard to imagine many non-Chareidi women taking such revolutionary [or subsversive] steps, as described above, in part. Are we being played?
°  Now that we see how extensive the inroads made by the female military draft crusade into the Chareidi community are, we have the wherewithal to challenge those who until now have remained blind to the spiritual devastation being perpetrated under their noses. The question is: what is the most effective response. One central element of that response is described below: pushing for an end to the female military draft altogether, for non-religious girls as well, and, as per the Brisker Rov OB”M, even more so for them.