Me:
Do you still support Eliezer Berland, yemach shemo, after the recent major ruling against him and his Sabbatean heresy by three major Israeli Jewish courts?
Them:
First of all, thank you for not assuming my position for me, one way or the other, and for being patient. A lot of things are going on in the wider world and, like it or not, our fellow Jews are being dragged into them. Is it possible they involve even you in some way?Even though I don’t consider myself and my blog all that important in the grand scheme of things (and therefore, I don’t understand why you’re chasing after me to call me to account on this issue), I will try to answer your question. I’m pretty sure you’re not going to like my answer.I’m not on the side of blatant sinners and scoffers (see Tehillim 1).However…when it comes to actual judgment in court, there are some things that must be considered. It may be my ignorance/lack of understanding of what I am looking at, driving me to what I have written/commented on my blog, as well as the following questions. But I want to be sure that judgment in Israel is well-considered, particularly from religious people, since the Jewish beth-din-based system starting with the 3-man beth din and ending with the Sanhedrin/Anshei Knesseth haG’dolah at its head is part of the wave of the future and forever, eventually, G-d willing. The seculars (courts, media, etc.) here haven’t been doing so well lately, whether with this case or with others.I don’t know a whole lot about batei din and how they operate. So, can you tell me…
- What are the requirements to have witnesses from both prosecution and defense regarding accusations against a defendant?
- If both must take part, what attempt is made to be sure that both sides are represented among the witnesses?
- Is there a way to weed out those who present a personal conflict of interest regarding the defendant, either way, from testifying? Alternatively, does testimony from such people have any use at all to a given case?
- What kinds of limitations, if any, do batei din have regarding what kinds of cases they can adjudicate until the system becomes normative in Israel?
Many thanks again for your patience. I also hope this answers your question. It’s all I’ve got.I grant that you have the advantage of seeing these particular events from up much closer than I. But at least some of the people you are working with, as far as I can tell, seem to have a long-standing conflict of interest regarding EB; this is what I have referred to above as the “intra-Breslev war” and for which I explained my reasoning in detail and still stand by.I read the judgment on The Yeshiva World that you sent me the link to; the judgment the batei din gave is ostracism (herem), not the death penalty that the picture on the left side of the Breslevemet website masthead implies.
Me:
This is a fresh new Beis Din. And there probably won’t be any future ones, either, because unlike the first one which comprised Breslov-linked rabbis, this latest one consists of all the important independent Torah judges in Israel (and, therefore, the world).
Both sides were officially represented at the case (Berland sent three Toanim Rabbani’m [quasi-lawyers]). The case took no less than 18 months, and started out with a proclamation against speaking out against Berland until the court had made its decision.
Sadly, Jewry has not yet recovered the judicial power of the Torah’s death penalty yet, so all the joint court could decide on is the question of Berland’s guilt in itself (not even excommunication). This also explains why the rules of evidence are less severe. We don’t have semicha, etc.
Tread carefully before casting aspersions on the court. Indeed, one who wantonly rejects Beis Din’s ruling is considered an evildoer, and it is permitted to shame him and generally speak Lashon Hara about him (Chafetz Chaim Lashon Hara chapter 4:8). I assume you don’t want to fit into that category by defending on your site someone who was already found guilty.
I recommended in the past you consult people mentioned on your site as your rabbis (or something similar), such as ________________ or any alternative competent halachic authority. Seeing as the facts are now more clear than ever, I would again suggest you do so.
Yours,
Hyehudi.org Editor
Me:
See this explaining the attempted whitewash of the ruling: סילוף דברי הרב שריאל רוזנברג אודות הפסק נגד כת ברלנד הנואף
No response given…
Note: Links added to the above only after the fact.