העורך Editor

מלחמת המקדש: מונולוג יפה של משה פייגלין

להאזנה ביוטיוב כאן…

תקציר:

חלק ראשון משיחת עומק עם משה פייגלין – מייסד ומנהיג תנועת “זו ארצנו” בתקופת הסכמי אוסלו, לימים חבר ועדת חוץ וביטחון של הכנסת – על קריסת צה”ל ב-7 באוקטובר. לדבריו, הטבח לא החל ב”עוטף עזה” השנה. קדמו לו מעשי טבח בפיצוץ אוטובוסים ובתי קפה על ידי הרוצחים עם דם על הידיים שהבאנו מתוניס. האליטות הביאו מתוניס רוצחים, נתנו להם את עזה, ציידו אותם בנשק והיו בטוחים שיהיה שלום. זה מה שעוללה מנהיגות לא אמונית לעם ישראל.

Enlightening Exchange With ‘Talmid of Rav Dovid Soloveitchik zatzal’ About Zionism, Brisk and Truthfulness

First I wrote this short article:

 

Did R’ Meshulam Dovid Soloveitchik Believe in Being Respectful to Observant Jewish Zionists?

Dr. Marc Shapiro quotes Shiurei Ha-Gaon Rabbi Meshulam ha-Levi: Derush ve-Aggadah (Jerusalem, 2014), p. 601-602:

אמנם צריך לדעת שכל מה שאנו מדברים . . . זהו על השיטה ולא לזלזל באנשים חרדים אפילו אם טועים בהשקפתם לילך אחריהם, ובודאי שאסור לבזות ת“ח וצריך להיזהר בכבוד התורה ולהתנהג עמם בדרך ארץ, ובנפש החיים כתב דהמבזה ת“ח שאין לו חלק לעוה“ב זהו אפילו ת“ח שלומד שלא לשמה. צריך לרחם עליהם על שטועים טעות מרה שכזו, אבל אסור לבזותם. בכל השנים שהייתי אצל מרן ז“ל לא ראיתי מעולם שביזה מישהו, וגם הגר“ח ז“ל לא ביזה שום אדם. הרבה מעשים שמעתי בבית ומעולם לא שמעתי שביזה מישהו.

Yeah, right.

The End.

A subscriber wrote in response:

 

Hi, I enjoy your daily newsletter (albeit that I don’t enjoy your slight zionist twist)
But this got me upset:

“Did R’ Meshulam Dovid Soloveitchik Believe in Being Respectful to Observant Jewish Zionists?”

You misquoted him on purpose. First of all, even Marc Shapiro, who is a zionist, wrote “he adds that nothing he says should lead to the degrading of any Torah scholar who is mistaken in this matter”
There is a big difference between not degrading someone to respecting someone. Tzvei Dinim. Saying that he meant to be respectful is twisting his words!
Also, note that Rav Dovid said “Chareidim”. See the prior paragraph in his sefer where you can see that the context is Chareidim who are a tiny bit happy or see slightly in a good light that there is a zionist state. (He was probably referring to Rabbonim like Rav Shteinman or Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz etc. who would praise how the zionists have supported torah and yeshivos).
Marc Shapiro intentionally mistranslated and left out the context as well. (Not unlike christian missionary standard when quoting Ezekiel etc. procedure)
So it definitely wasn’t referring to Mizrachi or Dati Affiliated Zionists who have myriad other hashkafic problems, for instance believing in the state being Aschalta D’geula, which is much, much worse than saying a nice word about the state supporting torah.
The next person who quotes him will say that he supported zionism! A game of broken telephone.
– From a Talmid of Rav Dovid Soloveitchik Zt”l
Hyehudi Editor:
Before we continue, may I publish our correspondence?
And may I use your name?
The Talmid:

Hi, sure you can publish it, but please don’t print my name.

One thing I want to add is that “degrading” is the wrong translation of זלזול in this context. Rav Dovid said that one should not be מזלזל in a Chareidi Rav who made some nice comments about the seemingly good things the State has done. This should not be construed that a Mizrachi or Dati Leumi Rav should be subject to petty “degradation”.
זלזול in this context means to completely disregard/not respect them as competent rabbonim due to a fundamental problem in their belief systems (mainly due to their philosophy viewing the secular State as אתחלתא דגאולה, as well as the old hashkafic problem of religious zionism as a movement, which has elements of כפירה in it).
So while he meant that those Rabbanim who may have made a nice comment here and there should still be respected as competent Rabbanim, real zionist Rabbanim should not be.
Hyehudi Editor:

Dear “Talmid of Rav Dovid Soloveitchik Zt”l”,

So, you say I misquoted your rebbe on purpose? How do you know it was on purpose? Heh, you remind me of the Brisker line against “הראשון לשושלת בריסק”: it must have been written Beru’ach Hakodesh due to the frequent “ויאמר רבי יוסף דוב בליבו…”, same as the gemara proves regarding the Megillah. (You also accuse Dr. Marc Shapiro, but he can do his own defending.)

Well, speaking of malicious misquoting, Rabbi Dovid Soloveitchik writes about more than just Torah scholars. Why didn’t you read the short original Hebrew (instead of Dr. Shapiro’s paraphrases, a man you anyway distrust) before accusing others of your own misdeeds? In fact, why not supply me with the original so I can see for myself? Oh, you don’t have the sefer? Some Talmid you are [unfair, to match you]!)

[And anyway, didn’t Rabbi Dovid Soloveitchik degrade Rabbi Steinman (yes, he made an effort to desist)? Anyway, that wasn’t the topic at hand.]

You write:

There is a big difference between not degrading someone to respecting someone. Tzvei Dinim. Saying that he meant to be respectful is twisting his words!

Right, well this isn’t a hashkafa treatise, but a short blog post and title. “סוגיא בדוכתא עדיפא”. Don’t you know the Rambam’s letter (der heilige Rambam!) on the inherent problems with translation? English is barely a Torah language (and Brisk would doubt even that).

In fact, not only do you seem to not own the book, or read even the quoted part for yourself, you didn’t even read my final sarcastic words, capable of various interpretations (“Yeah, right”)! Yikes. How long did you study by Rabbi Dovid Soloveitchik, anyway?! I assume you know the Chassam Sofer quip…

You have been reading this site for a long time (or at least you’re subscribed). I often translate “Charedim” as “observant”. Charedi (anti-Zionist)\ Mizrachi is a false dichotomy in my opinion, and I explained this many times in the past. How did you miss every such article? Didn’t you want to escape helping for Pesach then, too?

If we’re going to be accurate, why not start by conceding I always do my best to quote everyone accurately, friend or foe? (Or at least provide a link\reference.) And it’s not a “slight zionist twist” on my part, but an anti-anti-Zionism that differentiates between the true Atchalta Dege’ula and the wicked regime, unlike both rabbis Steinman and Soloveitchik. And don’t say anti-anti-Zionist=Zionist, because that would contradict your own Tzvei Dinim above (double-negative≠positive).

It beggars belief. You think I care about berserker Brisker distinctions with or without a difference in a nonexistent dictionary of pidgin “Lashon Hakodesh”; bizuy, zilzul? Look, I copied the Hebrew original I had. I gave a hyperlink to let the (intelligent) reader judge for himself. I made a degrading\de-grading (don’t start again!) 2-word remark and left it at that. I couldn’t contact the Soloveitchik Family Heritage Foundation’s spokesperson in charge of non-media inquiries for an official response by the estate’s board of directors, because… there is none. And you’re not it, either. What more do you want from me?! If you worry about games of broken telephone with Brisker doctrines, why not begin with Rabbi S.Y. Meller’s books or Rabbi Frankfurter’s Ami magazine?

Anyway, were you known as a reliable disseminator of Briskerism, I would make a whole separate article just from your words. Do you seriously think you can disregard the obvious technical competency of certain rabbis due to a “fundamental problem in their belief systems”, imaginary or genuine? This is just off-the-wall crazy (not even going into the perversion of the Ikarim in Brisk)! Do Rabbi Dovid’s talmidim follow him on either this or on the section I brought? Do they even respect the “charedim” of Chug Chazon Ish? Is such hair-splitting ad-hominem behavior even possible (not to mention it doesn’t comfortably fit the Rambam’s own quoting whoever he agreed with)?

Last but not least, although an old time subscriber, you seem unaware of many more substantive articles against various aspects of Brisk. I am an aspiring “Anti-Brisk”! Why don’t you write honestly about something lengthy and fundamental next time?

I am happy to publish critical comments of substance and I wish to believe your first attempt was unrepresentative of either you or Rabbi Dovid Soloveitchik zatzal. Why not search Hyehudi.org and try again?

Stay safe,

Hyehudi.org Editor

The Talmid:

Hi, thanks for making my day with your reply/literary masterpiece! You really cracked me up. I guess I took your post a little too seriously. I will send you an image of the page later today when I get home from work (I don’t keep the sefer in my workplace). If you want, I can get you a copy of the full sefer for 50 shekel, that’s what they sell it for. Perhaps we can meet so that Mr. Anonymous Hyehudi will expose his true identity and we can discuss your last email.

P.S. I attended Rav Dovid’s shiur for 11 years while learning in his Yeshiva. True, a true talmid is only after 40 years. I must admit that perhaps I’m not worthy.
So you’re an aspiring anti-Brisk. Hmm. Perhaps you can write your anti Brisk manifesto and I’ll write a rebuttal. (Keep in mind that talmidim of Rav Dovid aren’t known to be as closed minded as other factions of Brisk. For instance Rav Dovid would ask Kushyos on his father’s shtikkelach torah and disagree with him countless times, which Rav Berel and Rav AY would consider borderline Kfira. You have to keep in mind which faction you’re writing about)
Hyehudi Editor:
OK, I’ll wait for the scan.
The Talmid:

Attached.

I have a new copy of the sefer for you for whenever you want to leave being anonymous. Would give you one for free out of hakaras hatov for your exciting daily newsletter, but then you would say that I’m missionising, so you can pay 50 shekel.
(Ed. Note: I cropped the PDF)
Hyehudi Editor:
Aha.
So, it turns out the quote was basically accurate (although Dr. Shapiro converts the last comma into a period and should have put ellipses at the end instead of a period to show the sentence isn’t complete. That’s a problem). Not that you knew that when writing to the exciting daily newsletter.
Of course, seeing the book inside (thank you!), the illogic is even more glaring (though seeing the entire discussion might help). Since when are Jews commanded to respect those who lack Yiras Shamayim?
But now we both saw what it says for ourselves, where is the talmid’s apology for baselessly accusing me of misquoting your rabbi, “on purpose” to boot, and “twisting his words”?! Not to mention falsely accusing my source of “intentional mistranslation” and context-dropping. (Did you even read the Seforim Blog inside?)
Anyway, your rabbi at least seems to regard being an “Ish Emes” as a worthy goal. If apologies to the rightful targets of zilzul\bizuy (if not worse?) is too much for Briskers, especially talmidim, even those of the “moderate” faction, how about you admit the Emes, at least (דברים שאמרתי לפניכם טעות הם בידי)?
I’m waiting.
No response, so I said:
Probably posting tomorrow.
The Talmid:
Great! Make sure to make it extra exciting, with your comments.